Katsina State governor, Aminu Bello Masari says although the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC) says it has the capacity to transmit election results, he expressed his concern over who is to verify such results, since it can’t be done electronically.
In an interview with select journalists in Katsina, including Liberty’s Hassan Umar Farouk, which was granted in the aftermath of President Buhari’s commissioning of a farm estate in Daura, the governor cautioned against the politicisation of something very sensitive as election results, amongst other issues. Excerpts:
Que: We realised, when we came into Katsina that there is relative peace now in the State. Incidents that we’ve been hearing in the news in recent past has relatively piped down; what is the secret to your administration towards bringing down the spate of the deplorable insecurity situation to the barest minimum?
Governor Masari:: Well, we, as a government, are giving all the necessary support to the security agencies, and again we’re collaborating with other neighbouring States in addressing this issue of banditry and other forms of cross-border criminality. We have involved all the strata of society. For us, in Katsina, the issue of security is the responsibility of all of us. What we have done so far is to create security committees right from the village level. Where we are having these problems are the local government areas that are bordering the forest area. So, we have formed security committees beginning from the hamlet level, going up to the village level and up to the district level, and trying to re-introduce a structure that was effective before. The Mai Unguwa, (Ward Head), who looks after a particular area; and for a very long time they have been …. with responsibility, but what does he do with his office? The answer is virtually very little, or nothing. Now, we have these security committees, which involve the Village Head, or the Ward Head, as the case may be, including the Imams. Here we have two strong Islamic sects, the Izala and Darika; we’ve involved them. Even the heads of our local barbers/shavers, who are very very influential, because once there’s any new-born baby delivered they are oftentimes invited, as they’re the ones who usually participate in performing the ritual shaving of the new child and they also participate in the circumcision, as the case may be; this is common in these parts. So, they are vast, in terms of the knowledge of their localities. Then the Imams, whom I mentioned earlier, also attend naming ceremonies, lead prayers, wedding ceremonies, funerals. These people are people who are well connected. Then you come to the butchers, particularly the Head Butcher; one cannot slaughter an animal in the forest unless one has a customer, so they’re also very influential in giving information with regards to slaughtered animals…Then, you have the Sarkin-Tasha, (motor park chairman), where a village is located by the roadside, vehicles do pass, and they are able to see who drives in and drives out in the location…So, these are the people, including youth leaders in the villages, because most of the time you’ll discover that they are the ones involved with the local vigilante. And also, the women leaders, who normally go from house to house in their interaction with the womenfolk, can provide information on any odd or unusual thing they’ve witnessed in the places they normally visit; so, they are very important in terms of gathering information. This information, once gathered, would be filtered before any use. Mind you, the community police officer in charge of any particular unit is a member, as well as the head of the vigilante in that community is also a member.
Also, if we have a Sarkin Fulani, (Fulani Ardo, or Chief), in any area, all these persons are the people we have in our security committees that meets at least once a week, to report to the Village Head, and from the Village Head to the District Head. The District Head also has a similar committee, and he examines and filters all the information. This, we have passed into law, and a committee has already gone round, setting up these committees local government by local government; but we have done a lot of sensitisation before we even came up with this. So, the Emirate Councils of Katsina and Daura are fully aware, and are involved in the main committee and have members. We have given it wide publicity through the various mosques and also through the radio and television. Also effective is the use of Imams, especially during Juma’ah (Friday) prayers.
So, these are some of the things we’ve done in trying to bring on board everybody, because we’ve realised that the issue is not about only the Police; because, how many policemen do we have? How many military men do we have? But we have hundreds, thousands of villages scattered all over the State. If the people on their own get involved in the issue of security, I think we’ll then be able to minimise the problem and bring everything under control. Because, you see, there was a system before that was operational and people were living peacefully; but that system collapsed. And then we have the issue of population explosion. And then there is the effect of climate change; there are those that live in the forests as well as those that depend on the forest as their means of livelihood. Because it is not only herders who use the forest. You’ll find firewood sellers, hunters use the forest. So, all these people have been cut off as a result of banditry or climate change, or population explosion in some of these communities or areas and therefore, the available lands for farming became small, while the families have grown. And then there are other cultural and traditional issues involved as well. So, we feel that if you involve everybody, then it will go a long way.
Then again, working with the Judiciary, we established alternative dispute-resolution centres; we have already put in place many of them, and our intention here is that in the 361 wards we have in the State, we’ll have them. Because from our little understanding of neighbourhood relationships, for instance, from financial transactions or debt issues, there are lots of issues that don’t need to go to the Police. If you see what we have opened here in Katsina, in Kwado, if you see what they’ve done, in say a period of three months, is what our normal courts have not done in one or two years; they have resolved and settled differences between the people. We have already established one in the Central Market area; in Katsina here, I think we have already established five, which are already operational. So, we believe that these are also the kinds of things that would enhance good community living. Because what we realised is that the spirit of community living is virtually gone now.
And again, we have involved these local property dealers and agents, who engage in the buying and selling of land, or others that are rent collectors, or people who give out rent; all of them are part of our structure, so that in the course of their business or commercial transactions, they don’t go out to give out lands and/or properties for either rent or outright sale to any person that is not known, or who has no fixed address, or you don’t know his occupation. And I believe it is working very well, because before now, some of the bandits were moving their families to the urban centres while they themselves continue to live in the forest; but with this arrangement now, whoever comes to our State now to look for accomodation, such a person or persons’ address must be known. And again, there is the issue of the transportation of animals without records; we’re also working towards generating community and cattle tax from the communities as government policy; although, some people are only viewing this policy from the financial or monetary perspective alone. We are looking beyond that; because the issue is crucially that of knowing who and who lives where; how many people are in one’s household and what do they do for a living? So, a lot of information would be gathered in the process. We’re really trying to set up a foundation whereby we should be able to know exactly how many adults there are in any given community, like how many female adults are living in each household. It even helps in planning, and even for security agencies, in case of an attack from bandits or anybody.
Working with our neighbours, we’re also collaborating in information-sharing, keeping tabs on people’s movement, and I think now, in this State, nobody can come into Katsina, whether he is a herder or otherwise, to come and settle in any community without the proper identification. This is very important, in order to enable the government to know who lives where and what he does. The beauty of this cattle tax, once it starts, is that if, for instance, we know that you have twenty cattle, next year you cannit tell us you have forty, because, we’ll ask you: “how come”? If you say you purchased them, then you should be able to say who you purchased them from; and also, what did you do to earn so much money to purchase them? So, I think it is very important that we take this issue beyond leaving it to the Police or the DSS or the military; after all, how many are they? They can’t be everywhere and they are also human beings like us, except of course that they have special training that allows them to tackle such things.
And also, the cooperation of our local Ulamas is really towards helping in sensitising the people, and so far, there has been a dramatic progress in terms of banditry, kidnappings, etc…though it is happening almost on a daily basis, however, it is not like we have witnessed before. Cattle-rustling has drastically dropped, even though, the cattle to rustle are all in the forest. And also, you have to realise that these bandits do not have a single, or unified, leadership. They are simply criminals. So, when people say, “talk to them”, the question is: ‘talk to who’? Because, in the forests of Katsina alone, you’ll find out that there exists over a hundred camps of these bandits, let alone Zamfara or Kebbi States. A gang begins with two criminals, and nobody is under anybody. They may have a working relationship when they are want to go out for a massive attack; but after their attack, they distribute whatever proceeds they’ve amassed, whether rustled cattle or ransom money from their kidnapping. They divide whatever they’ve seized, even their kidnapped victims according to their camps. So, irrespective of whoever one has in any given camp, they are independent persons. So, talking to them is like, if you talk to Mr. A, Mr. B or C are not involved. I think what we need to do is to really find more efficient and effective ways of degrading them. There is no society without criminality, but criminality should not be the order of the day. The good ones are in the majority, so they have to take charge in such a way that the criminal elements among us do not disturb our way of life.
Que: One of the things that is instigating this insecurity is the lack of jobs among our youth. In other climes, their leaders have ceded land to the Federal Government for the establishment of farmland estates, whereby the youths can be meaningfully engaged. Are you thinking of such a thing?
Gov. Masari: One of the things I mentioned earlier is the factor of population explosion, especially in this part of the country, whereby an average person has an average of two wives. I want you to do the multiplier effect and see. And the land, over the years, has been over-cultivated. Also, the production has also greatly reduced; thank God, now we have new, improved seedlings, which is really helping the situation. And because of the population explosion, again some of the cattle routes have been taken over by farmers, including the cattle-rearers themselves. What we used to have as community grazing areas; there was one in my village, but where is it today? It has disappeared. In every village, there was a grazing community or grazing area. They’ve all disappeared. And you cannot bring all of them back; you simply can’t, because of population explosion, urbanisation and many other factors. However, you can use technology to mitigate some of these issues. Like I mentioned earlier, there are improved seedlings. What a farmer used to produce on one hectare of land 10 years ago, today, you can produce 100 hectres through modern farming methods and improved seeds. These are some of the issues we are presently tackling.
I think the programme you suggested is the absorption of about one thousand young farmers; we are working with the Ministry of Agriculture, with a view to identifying those that are needed and eligible for farming. Farming does not mean only going to the farm. For somebody who is into poultry, he is also a farmer. The one who is into cattle-rearing, or animal husbandry, is also a farmer. We have just finished the Sallah celebrations and you have seen the rams that were put up for sale in Katsina State. There are people who are engaged in these kinds of commercial activities, what they do nowadays is: they buy the animals now, feed them well for one year and then sell them profitably the following year and make up to 1,000% profit if they fed them well. So, because the government is advocating that people should go back to farming, it doesn’t mean everybody must plant crops. There are so many things you can do in agriculture; some are entrepreneurs in the agricultural sector. The value-addition is critical.
Because value-addition by young farmers helps in cutting off unnecessary middlemen, which oftentimes leads to farmers losing. Because, for instance, somebody buys one bag of maize at say N1,000, then he does some value-addition like packaging, etc and subsequently, he gets N50,000. The agricultural value-chain in Nigerian can help in the employment of over eighty (80) percent.
The agricultural value-chain in Nigerian can help in the generation of employment for Nigerians by over eighty (80) percent, some directly and others indirectly. So, that programme of engaging one thousand farmers which you mentioned, it was sent to us also; but we are thinking beyond 1,000 farmers because what they are saying is that each one of them should be given one hectre. Although, it is a very good program although it’s a very good programme, there are so many other things involved in farming.
But I agree with you; some of the things we have discovered in dealing with this insecurity
where the bandits’ leaders are recruiting from people who are stark illiterates, who lack the proper or even basic Islamic education. They claim to be Muslims but the tenets of what makes a Muslim they don’t know! they don’t even know how to worship God. They only answer the name because when they grew up they were being called with certain names; don’t even know the history of their names. For instance, my name, Mohammed Aminu, they don’t even know the meaning of the word! As we all know, every name has a meaning; because nobody wants to be called a donkey, isn’t it.
They lack both Islamic and Western education. For a very long time, they were abandoned in the forest; and then there was a huge population explosion.
Several years ago, I had an interaction, in the United States when I was in the Civil Service go, where I went for a course and I met a very senior consultant of the World Bank, and in the course of our conversation at one time, he said, “Oh, don’t you worry, it is not easy to manage wealth, but people is a good manager of poverty”.
One would have thought that between 2013 to 2014 when oil was selling for 100 to 140 dollars per barrel if you had told somebody that a day would come when petrol would sell for less than $30 per barrel, he would have told you that that would be the end of Nigeria. But it sold for less than $30 per barrel and the country survived.
Most of the things, except perhaps the extravaganza that was done at that time, are still being done by government workers are still paid their salaries and schools, hospitals are running. They may not run as one would wish, but they are running; but really, there is never an ideal situation. Yes, the country got money and it could be argued that but would have been far ahead than where we are now, and I agree with that, but that is not to say nothing has been done in the country. If the country can survive from 2015 to date with the low price of oil, with the Covid-19 pandemic, you could see that really, if Nigerians could work together as one people, united, the sky is the limit. I think a lot is being done, but more needs to be done. To achieve all this, all we need is good, fair and just leadership.
Que: My colleagues and I have been wondering at times that most of the time when we are moving along with the President to inaugurate road projects in rural areas, most of the State governors
are busy erecting structures in urban cities or areas, and I used to point out to my colleagues that there must be wisdom in this; As we are here, can you educate us on the wisdom behind this?
Gov. Masari: We have built over 543 tarred roads, we have built over 2, 000 kilometres of rural feeder roads. We have rehabilitated roads, complete rehabilitation of over 300 kilometres of rural roads across the State. We all know that Katsina is basically a rural state; in most of the localities, because of the challenges we are facing and addressing, like the issue of this insecurity, is because of lack of access to roads in the rural areas.
So, even the road that the President commissioned, you know, the history of that road is that there was a banditry attack in one of the villages around the area, in Tsaskiya village and the Village Head and most of the people living in the village, we met them by the roadside. Coincidentally, the village head was my senior, a prefect, in our secondary school, is now the Village Head in Tsaskiya village. Myself, the then Commissioner of Police and the Army’s Commanding Officer were unable to reach that village, which is a very short distance, but it took us almost two hours before we could reach that village. So, during the attack on the village, they were frantically calling the security operatives, but these kinds of attack, they are like flash floods, which come and go all of a sudden; these bandits, they come and operate and within 30 minutes they are gone. So, by the time any security personnel will reach there they would have finished their operation and have gone. And sadly, the anger of the people will be on the security personnel instead of the perpetrators; but how could they? So, that is the story of that road, which covers only 50 kilometres. And since then, we promised to do the road and constructed it since 2016. To provide these roads is one of the most difficult things, especially working with the National Assembly under the constituency projects scheme. that was how we are able to construct over 2, 000 kilometres of rural feeder roads across the State.
We believe that majority of our people live in localities, so our focus is more on rural infrastructure; so that people should remain where they are, where they can afford to farm their lands and also transport their produce.
Even, concerning rural electrification, we worked with the State’s House of Assembly on providing rural electrification to these areas, enabling them to have some energy for processing their services. Now we are working with the Federal Ministry of Power for the provision of 5 million solar panels for our rural households.
We are also developing 361 comprehensive Health Care Centres in all the 361 political wards in the State. So, we are concentrating more on the rural areas. I’m sure you may have seen while coming from Daura to here, you must have seen all the drainages that we have been constructing. This year, we are spending over three billion and most of these, on drainages are being constructed in rural communities. Our attention is more on rural infrastructure, such as roads, drainages, schools, clinics and rural electrification and the provision of rural infrastructure for our communities.
Que: Some of the issues that came out of from the commissioning of the NALDA Farm Estate sparked national debate; we learnt then that the Federal Government released N5billion to Katsina State for cattle grazing reserves and suddenly some governors said…
Gov. Masari: (Cuts in)…The history of this is that under the Natural Resources Fund, many states have applied for it from the Federal Government for different things. In our own case, we applied. The totality of the amount earmarked for the project is over N12 billion. Then the Federal Government said we have to contribute 50% and the Federal Government will contribute the other 50%; we are now talking about the 50% of the Federal Government. What have we put in place? We have spent more than that in terms of providing the necessary grounds for this project to take off. The governor of Benue State is demanding N100 billion. The Federal Government gave us N6.2 billion; what is the relationship between 100 billion and N6 billion?
If the Federal Government is to provide 100 billion to each State, how many billions would that cost the Federal Government and where would the money come from? I think people should be very responsible for what they ask for. My State is not the only state in Nigeria; it is not the only state that has problems. If I have problems with banditry, Akwa-Ibom has a similar problem, maybe with militancy, Lagos would have its own problems, and so on. So people must be responsible. If you are asking for N100 billion, are you the only one that has a problem? It doesn’t make sense. If you give me one trillion naira I can spend it all in Katsina; but am I being responsible? If I know your salary is N20 but I ask for N50, where are you going to get the N30 from?
while I’m not your only child; what is N6.2 billion compared to somebody who’s asking for 100 billion? We have a National Executive Council (NEC) Committee; let them make that request at the committee. Some of them were the ones that made the issue of ranching at the committee very difficult or impossible by politicising it.
You see, really unless we treat this country like a single human body, your own body; because this part is sick for instance, the neck cannot say: ‘that it is not my problem, it is the finger or the right hand that is sick’. If you don’t address it will affect the leg. For me, today, if for instance, you have a problem in Edo, I wouldn’t mind putting all the necessary resources to address it so that it doesn’t come to Kogi and from Kogi, it doesn’t come to Niger and from Niger, it doesn’t come to Zamfara and Katsina. So, the problem is, when there is a problem in one part of the country the other part will just say: ‘that is your wahala’, forgetting that your own too is coming; but by the time it comes to you it has matured and become more deadly and more dangerous. Did we start Covid-19? Did it not come to Nigeria? The reality is that unless we, as Nigerians start to look at ourselves as a single body and work towards preserving that body if the head is aching, let’s work together and make sure that it stops so that doesn’t affect or before it attacks the other organs of the body.
Que: Sir, people who have listened to you speak at various fora could say you seem to be so much interested in what President Buhari is doing even though he is being criticised across the country. In some instances, where you have quoted from sections of the Holy Quran…Why are you so interested in what the President is doing?
Gov. Masari: You see leadership is not a bed of roses. What kills leadership in most societies, and in particular our own, is that leaders want unnecessarily hailing; clapping. But if you are providing good leadership, you have to step on toes. Because your vision should be after I’m out of this place what I did shall follow me. I cannot please everybody; even God I said it. The only time one may be satisfied is when one is in the grave because one can’t do anything about it. God has said that your destiny as a human being, don’t allow anyone to slow you down towards achieving it. I can be good to you but you can return the favour in a very bad way; does that mean I shouldn’t be good to the next person? No! Like you rightly mentioned, the end of the quote is that ordinarily, the human being is very ungrateful. When he comes to you looking for something he will go to any lengths to get it, but once he gets it he’ll say no to you, because that is human nature and the way God has created us, human beings. After all, why did Adam leave paradise? Because he disobeyed God. So, it is in our hearts to disobey; and it is in our character to fear. Let’s say, for example, on your way from Daura to here if you were lucky to meet somebody you don’t know who gives you N100, but after you arrive in Katsina and somebody asks you to give him one naira the person would say, ‘why should I give you one naira?’, forgetting that you got 100 naira without doing anything. That is part of human nature; it’s normal.
What I was trying to tell Mr. President is that he shouldn’t be discouraged by the criticism, whether from the media or anywhere, some people are criticising him from all corners but he shouldn’t be discouraged, so that at the end of the day, he will leave office a fulfilled and happy person; and that is when people start to judge your performance. You see, there is a Hausa proverb in Hausa that says: ‘May God not bring a day of people’s praises’; because that will be the day when you are no longer in that office, or even in this world, that is but now whatever he does some people would never be happy naturally, but what is more important is that one has to make sure that in whatever we are doing is in the interest of the majority.
Que: Sir, from your vast experience as a lawyer; what is your view on the Electoral Amendment Act, especially when it comes to the electronic transmission of election results. Because some people are positing that the party is planning to rig the elections in 2023.
Gov. Masari: First of all, going through history, there was never a time that the Electoral Act was passed without some people disagreeing with some portions of it, so for some to support it and for some to go against it is only natural.
What is more important is that we have to look at what is the level of our infrastructure. Can the level of our infrastructure be able to cope with electronic transmission? Because there are safeguards. For me, my opinion is that even if you got electronic transmission you have to confirm it manually, because these our young people that are so computer savvy, I am wary of them, because they can easily hack it; (general laughter)… whatever somebody does, there is someone somewhere who is more intelligent and can beat, if he intends to; you can see how these people in Information Technology that are engaged in satellite transmission are constantly battling with hackers who are relentlessly attempting to break their codes; even the Internet Service Providers, you can see how they are always changing their codes on daily basis.
For us in Nigeria, some people regard elections as a do-or-die affair. For them, you can go to any extent to either hack or sabotage the transmission. So whatever you’re going to do you have to look at your level of infrastructural development; because something is being done in America or Europe, you have to ask yourself: ‘Am I in a position to do what they are doing? Do I have the infrastructure to do what they’re doing and what is the nature of elections? These countries have conquered issues of hunger; but have we? What was promised in 1960 after independence is still what we are battling with. In those countries, nobody is talking about three square meals; nobody is talking about access roads, etc. They are talking about issues at a much higher level than us. We had the opportunity to develop our infrastructure, power, roads and institutions. But did we? So, my take on that is simple; we have to do what our level of infrastructure can accommodate
If the INEC says it has the capacity to do it, fine. But what about the verification? Because you wouldn’t be sitting in your village and with the authentic result and somebody somewhere is announcing a totally different result. Yes, the transmission of election results but what about verification? Maybe I’m a bushman, that is why perhaps I don’t understand how these young brains, who are very smart; but really, I am afraid of this young brains; they are very smart to be allowed to tamper with something very sensitive as election results.
